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Continuing the Conversation: Talking about Race and Social Justice with Children

Home > Family Room > Continuing the Conversation: Talking about Race and Social Justice with Children

Continuing the Conversation: Talking about Race and Social Justice with Children

June 11, 2020 | Christine Platt, Dr. Kristin Carothers and Dr. Seth Shaffer
Father and daughter using a computer having fun Show Notes:

In this webinar we were joined by Christine Platt, literacy advocate and passionate activist for social justice and policy reform. Ms. Platt read and discussed her children’s book, Trailblazers: Martin Luther King Jr. In the Question Corner, child psychologists Dr. Kristin Carothers and Dr. Seth Shaffer discussed age appropriate conversations to have with your children about race and racism.

Megan: Welcome to The Family Room. We are so glad you are joining us today to continue the conversation talking about race and social justice with children. This is important now and always. And we are thrilled to have Christine Platt an author and anti-racist advocate with us today to share some of her stories. As well as Dr. Kristin Carothers, to join us in the question and answer section with our additional child psychologist, Dr. Seth Shaffer, who has been reoccurring....

Megan: Welcome to The Family Room. We are so glad you are joining us today to continue the conversation talking about race and social justice with children. This is important now and always. And we are thrilled to have Christine Platt an author and anti-racist advocate with us today to share some of her stories. As well as Dr. Kristin Carothers, to join us in the question and answer section with our additional child psychologist, Dr. Seth Shaffer, who has been reoccurring.

[00:00:37] So today, before we get started, we do want to take another moment of silence. This past week, Sean Monterrosa was gunned down by police during a Black Lives Matter protest.

[00:00:49] So we’re going to take a few seconds to remember his life and all the lives that have been cost in this time.

[00:00:59] [silence]

[00:01:01] Thank you. As we continue this conversation, we would love for you to use the chat box as much as possible to share your thoughts and questions you have for our guests and for us today. We loved receiving all of your questions through the newsletter this past week, and we hope to address as many as possible today in this very important matter.

[00:01:30] Again, The Family Room is a collaboration between MAEC and Turning the Page. And we will be going through an author reading and conversation with Christine Platt. We’ll be talking with kids about race and racism and how to do so with Dr. Kristen Carothers. And we’ll have our question corner.

[00:01:51] Use the Q and A box, the chat, or if you are logging in through Facebook, please comment, and ask questions. We’d love to hear voices, and it’s an especially important time to address any concerns or things that are on top of your mind right now.

[00:02:07] Mariela is going to talk more about MAEC.

[00:02:11] Mariela: Hey everyone. Thank you for joining us in The Family Room today. We are happy to be continuing this collaborative effort between MAEC and Turning the Page.

[00:02:21] Part of this is to provide a space for families to share strategies with one another and hopefully learn some tools for how to talk to children about race, racism and social justice. And like Megan said, this is a conversation that is important today and always.

[00:02:36] A bit about MAEC. We are an educational nonprofit in Bethesda, Maryland, founded in 1991. We are dedicated to increasing access to a high quality education for culturally, linguistically and economically diverse learners. Our vision is a day when all students have equitable opportunities to learn and achieve at high levels. And MAEC’s mission is to promote excellence and equity and education to achieve social justice.

[00:03:04]So CAFE, the Collaborative Action for Family Engagement center is a project of MAEC. We apply an equity lens to family engagement, by building relationships among schools, parents, and community organizations. We improve the development and academic achievement of all students. We are the statewide family engagement center for Maryland and Pennsylvania, and are funded through a federal Department of Education grant for statewide family engagement centers.

[00:03:39] Megan: Turning the Page connects public schools, families, and our community together so that we can ensure our students receive valuable educational resources and a high quality, public education.

[00:03:51] As part of our usual programming, we put on author visits throughout the year. During a recent author visit, we were able to have Christine Platt, who’s an amazing author and advocate in the community. She’s joining us today to read from one of her recent books, but even more so to continue the conversation we started last week about race and racism and how it’s best to talk to our students about it and at varying age levels. She really believes that storytelling is a tool for social justice.

[00:04:23] And we’re going to hear from her more. Christine welcome. And we’re so glad to have you today.

[00:04:29] Christine: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here. Good afternoon, everyone. And thank you so much for joining today’s Family Room. As Megan said, I’m Christine Platt literacy advocate and anti-racism activists, and I am honored to speak with you all today on ways to have conversations about race and social justice with children.

[00:04:49] When it comes to having these difficult conversations. And also, I don’t want to keep using the word difficult, we’re going to say courageous conversations. I like to remind parents and educators of this. The goal is not to explain the history of race, racism, and injustice as if you have only one chance to give the most important lecture in children’s lives. The goal is to have age appropriate conversations that can be expanded upon over time.

[00:05:18] So let’s take a look at how that, how that’s going to look. Right. Let’s take a look at some what some age appropriate conversations might look like. So I’m going to share a few slides that I use for K through eight workshops as a facilitator for the Anti-Defamation Leagues, No Place for Hate initiative in schools.

[00:05:39]Also, if you’re interested in your school receiving the No Place for Hate designation and honor, you can just visit the Anti-Defamation League to sign up and get more information.

[00:05:50] So pre-K through second grade for this age group, I feel it’s best to talk about and frame the conversations around differences. This is so much easier than trying to get children to understand the complexities of race nationalities, ethnicities. Of course, if those organically come up, that’s very different. And you should definitely weave them into the conversation that you’re having. But trying to, you know, start the conversation with that can be really heavy for children.

[00:06:18] So I like to start with a framework that they can understand. And children can understand differences, right? So getting them to understand we’re all different. Everyone in the world has something about them that is unique, and that these special qualities are called differences. And also getting them to understand and identify some of their own differences, whether they’re visible, physical, sensory, or learning.

[00:06:41]Chances are you know, obviously there will be very forthcoming with their visible and physical and sensory differences. And then, you know, also they’ll be able to relate and understand differences, thinking about some of their classmates and friends. Right. I also like to teach this group, the people’s feelings song.

[00:07:01] Okay. And it’s not called the people’s feelings songs. That’s what I’ve coined it. But this song is available on the Anti-Defamation League’s website. And it’s really sweet. It’s sung to the tune of Mary had a Little Lamb. And so I’m going to, I’m going to sing it so that you will have the tune and rhythm for your children, and your students.

[00:07:24] And so the people’s feeling song is. “We know what to do and say, do and say, do and say, we know what to do and say, if someone hurts another. It’s not right to act that way, act that way, act that way. It’s not right to act that way, that’s what we tell each other.

[00:07:50] And you can see, this is why I’m an author.

[00:07:51] Dr. Shaffer: Wahoo!

[00:07:52] Christine: I really cannot sing. [laughs]

[00:07:55] Megan: Me neither.

[00:07:57] Christine: [laughs]

[00:07:58] Megan: But

[00:07:58] Christine: I love teaching this song to children. And it’s really, really cute. They really get into it and I’ve heard from so many parents and educators that even after these workshops, you know, they’ll hear the kids going around singing these songs. It almost becomes like a little mantra for them.

[00:08:15]And so, yeah, like this is an age appropriate way to get them to understand, you know, we all have differences. We all have to respect other people’s feelings. And this is a nice little reminder and a catchy tune for them to sort of hold onto that nugget. Right.

[00:08:30] So for this age group, your conversations are centered around differences. Right. So teaching children to be proud of their differences, teaching children, to respect others differences and to use words that are kind and helpful instead of hurtful.

[00:08:48] And I have more on that slide when I’m giving the presentation, but really getting kids to understand that, like, even if what you’re saying is kind, it doesn’t mean that, it isn’t harmful or hurtful. Right. And so really, getting children in this age group to understand that.

[00:09:06] All right, next, when we get to the third to fifth grade group, you can expand on these conversations around differences with this age group to include concepts like identity, right?

[00:09:19] So in this age group, children can understand, okay, my identity is comprised of all my many differences, right. And really getting them to understand and look at the many different aspects of their identities and how they’re also different.

[00:09:35] Normally when I do this, I have children do their own identity maps. So that’s something that you can also do with your children or students.

[00:09:43] Also with this age group, I think it’s really important to make the connection in a way that they can understand. And with this age group, bullying is a concept, that they are very much familiar with. And you can get them to make that connection that it’s a form of discrimination and that it’s hurtful.

[00:10:02]It’s also a way to introduce some of the core terminology that we want to build upon over time, like aggressor, the person who is saying, or doing hurtful things. The target, the person who is being bullied or being treated in a hurtful way. Bystanders, someone who sees something happening, but doesn’t do or say anything.

[00:10:23] And then also this is a great age group to begin the conversation around allyship. Also because this age group can be quite silly. I like to remind them it’s not just a joke. I think we’re missing one slide there. Can we go back? I’m sorry.

[00:10:41] One more. Nope. It’s not there. Anyway. There’s a slide about, I thought I had given you all a slide about teaching this age group, the importance of, you know, doing these things. It’s not just a joke. They can be really, really silly at this age group. And some of them really have a hard time grasping and understanding, you know, I was just teasing, right.

[00:11:05] And so really getting them to make the connection that it’s not just a joke. Also conversations with this age group can include action items such as how to move from bystander to ally. Right. And so I really like to talk to children about like, you know, supporting targets, whether you know them or not. Don’t participate in the behavior. Telling aggressors to stop. How to inform a trusted adult, and getting to know people instead of judging them.

[00:11:33] And with this age group, your conversations can be centered around personal experience. These are great conversation starters to say like, well, what happened? How did you feel? What did you do? And what did you want to do? So really, really great age group to introduce some of these core concepts.

[00:11:55] Next. By the time we get to middle school, you should be able to further expand on these conversations about differences and identities to include social identities, bias, racism and prejudice. Right. And so really getting to understand children that yes, we all have identities, but some of these identities, are social identities that have been around for a very long time and people can get lumped into different groups or categories based on these social identities, such as race. Right.

[00:12:27] And so really getting children to understand that and also getting them to understand that some social identities have privilege, and that some do not. And getting them to see, well what does it look like to have privilege and power? And which social identities to not? And then identifying what social identities that they have that may have privilege or power.

[00:12:48] So really wonderful exercise for middle school students. And, they really get really into it.

[00:12:54] Next slide. I’m sorry. And so again, when you introduce these concepts, you can also, with this age group, talk about identity and bias.

[00:13:03] I try very hard to, ensure that I don’t use, you know, more scientific definitions, right. You can be very straightforward and forthcoming with this age group. Right. You know, when you’re exercising conscious bias, you’re aware and intentional and responsive in what you’re thinking and saying, and doing. Right.

[00:13:23] And then in getting them to understand what unconscious biases and it’s so important to give them these definitions because they hear these words tossed about and thrown about, all the time. But you know, you have to be able to make it age appropriate for them. Right. And so again, the idea is to always be having conversations that can be expanded upon over time.

[00:13:47] The same goes for prejudice, racism and prejudice, right. Getting them to understand. That a large part of what racism is, is a system of advantages and disadvantages based on race. Getting them to understand that racism is prejudice or discrimination against someone based on race, right?

[00:14:06] Giving them all of these working definitions so that they will be able to understand and identify racism when it is occurring in their own lives, or when they may be exercising a form of racism or discrimination that they really didn’t know that they were doing that before. Right. And so reminding this age group, too, it’s so important, everyone has prejudices and biases, right.

[00:14:33] One thing also, that’s really, really fun with this age group, when you talk to them, is letting them know that we start forming our first prejudices when we are around two years old. That, when I tell students that, like they, I mean, we end up having very long conversations about that because they really want to know like, how does this happen? Right.

[00:14:55] But that’s, you know, getting them to understand, like you start having a prejudice or bias, or being, you know, liking something, something as similar, that sort of things, it starts to happen when we’re young. But what ends up happening is when we grow older, some of these not so positive things can become a part of our belief system. And getting children to understand that we can change. Right.

[00:15:19] And so, really, that was a very, very brief, sort of summary of what the sort of trainings and workshops can look like. And what these conversations can look like in your classrooms and in your homes. And so I want to give a few guidelines for parents. And these guidelines are in this book. Sorry, I have a little bit of a glare, it’s called Something Happened in Our Town. It’s a child’s story about racial injustice. This is a wonderful book, unfortunately given our current social climate, I believe it’s sold out everywhere.

[00:15:52] However, you can watch readings on YouTube. You can, I think there’s also an animated version on YouTube. So you can definitely experience and read this book without waiting for the actual physical copy to come. Also, the publisher has a number of wonderful resources, some of which I’ve shared with the team here, which they will be sharing with you all, either in the chat or post this webinar.

[00:16:21]But there are questions in here on how to address racial bias, countering racism, sample parent-child questions and answers. So it’s really a wonderful, resource and tool for children to either read through individually or families to read through it together. So a few guidelines that I want to give parents.

[00:16:42] Address your child’s questions and comments. I am a mother and, you know, I very much was guilty when my daughter was younger of wanting to keep her in the safe, happy bubble for as long as possible and let the air out as slowly as I could. Right. But you have to resist blanke, reassurances and statements like, we’re all the same, or I don’t see race in color. Right? Like these are not addressing the children’s questions and comments. You have to really dig deep and again, think about having those age appropriate, courageous conversations. Okay.

[00:17:21] Secondly, encouraging multi-dimensional views of others. It’s so important to help your children to consider both similarities and differences and more importantly, how to respect them. And this is where books and literature, wonderful, wonderful resource. And we need to always remember that books are windows and mirrors, right? So, children reading them, they are able to see themselves reflected on the page. And then other children are able to use the books as windows, to peek into the lives of other children and cultures, that they may be curious about. Right.

[00:17:56] So always remember that. And using books. and also there are some online resources to encourage multi-dimensional views of others.

[00:18:04] Third, I want you to think about balance, right? It’s so important. To balance your acknowledgement of the realities of racism with messages about hope for change and the availability of help. Right. And I think oftentimes, you know, folks are heavier on one side or the other, right. Like they’re really, really heavy on acknowledging the realities of racism, but they forget to talk about the hope for change. Or they’re on the other side of the spectrum, which, you know, they’re just super, super hopeful, but not really acknowledging the realities of racism. Right. And so really try and give children some balance.

[00:18:39]Four, be prepared to talk about what your child sees and hears. Right? It’s so important that when they come to you for guidance, help them understand the news and stories and related events. They’re hearing all these bits and pieces and, you know, they’re trying to make the connection and put it all together. And so that is a moment where, you know, you really need to be prepared to have these conversations. Okay.

[00:19:05] Fifth demonstrate behaviors that promote children’s positive attitudes towards racial and cultural diversity. And this is goes back to like, you know, children learn more oftentimes by what they are shown than by what they’re told. Right. And so, you know, you’re diversifying their bookshelf. Diversify your bookshelf as well, right. Like you need to demonstrate behaviors that promote these positive attitudes that you’re seeking.

[00:19:33] Six. Demonstrate and encourage acts of kindness towards others and engage in activities to challenge injustice. I saw really cute post the other day. A little girl, she wanted to attend the protest in her city. Her parents were not comfortable with that. And so what they did was they set up a toy protest and they had all her dolls and toys make signs, and they were able to talk about that and have the conversation that way. Right. So engage in activities that challenge injustice in a way that is comfortable, both for you as a parent and also, for your child.

[00:20:09] And then lastly, excuse me, use literature as a teaching tool to help foster learning about other’s lived experiences to teach history and as a springboard to continuing the conversation.

[00:20:21]And so the book that I’m going to read today, I hope you all can see that, it is the story of Martin Luther King. This is for advanced early readers. So, children who are reading well independently, they can read this book themselves. But I also have a number of families that are reading this book together with their children. Something else that’s really, wonderful when you’re looking for a book as a teaching tool. I don’t know if you can see, but some of these words are bolded. And those are words that are introducing new concepts and ideas to children.

[00:20:55] And so I’m just going to reach chapter one in the interest of time. And then I’ll also, I’ll give a little explanation, afterwards.

[00:21:03] So chapter one, All right. Meet Martin Luther King Jr. As a young boy, Martin Luther King Jr. wanted to be a fireman, then a doctor. He loves singing and even considered being a performer. But Martin never thought he’d be a civil rights leader.

[00:21:26] When Martin was born, the United States was a segregated country. Black and white citizens did almost everything separately. Their families often lived in different neighborhoods. Their children even went to different schools. Whenever they had to do things together, like ride the bus, black people were not treated fairly.

[00:21:48] Even as a child, Martin knew segregation was wrong. He believed everyone deserves to be treated equally. When Martin became an adult, he would help lead the civil rights movement to end segregation. How did Martin go from dreaming of being a fireman to giving his famous “I have a dream speech”? What inspired him to end segregation and fight for equality?

[00:22:11] Let’s find out more about Martin’s life and how he changed America. Martin’s America. Martin was born on January 15th, 1929 in Atlanta, Georgia. He was named after his father, Reverend Martin Luther King, Sr. A popular minister at Ebenezer Baptist church. Martin’s mother Alberta trained as a school teacher.

[00:22:36] More than 60 years before Martin was born, slavery was legal in the South. It was one of the main reasons the civil war began on April 12th, 1861. When Abraham Lincoln was president. The North wanted to end slavery and fought against the South. One of president Lincoln’s goals was to end slavery once and for all. He did many things to make this happen, including signing the emancipation proclamation.

[00:23:03] The North won the civil war and slavery ended in 1865. The United States then began its reconstruction era. During this time, Southern States created black codes and Jim Crow laws. These were rules that required black citizens to do things separately from white citizens.

[00:23:23] Even if black workers for the same job as white workers, black workers were paid less. Over time these laws became segregation laws, which was a form of racism. When Martin was born, segregation laws still existed. So he experienced racism in his life. Even as a child Martin’s first best friend was a white boy, but the boy’s father told them they couldn’t be friends anymore because Martin was black.

[00:23:51] Martin was confused. He told his mother and she explained that this was how things were under segregation. Martin felt very sad. He hoped segregation would end, so he’d never have to lose another friend. Martin’s childhood experiences of racism played a big role in the type of leader he would become. His life played a big role and the type of country America would become too.

[00:24:17] And so that’s like just an introduction to Martin Luther King’s life, but also really framing the history of this country in a way that is age appropriate for children. Right.

[00:24:28] Also one of the things that I love is that, we have this myth-fact box here. I don’t know if you, am I’m live, can you all see? And so when we talk about having, you know, engaging and having children do some critical thinking. I love having these myth and fact boxes, right.

[00:24:49] So here in chapter one, the myth is when slavery ended black and white people live together peacefully. And I give them a fact, even after slavery, black and white people live segregated lives, especially in the Southern States. Many white people in the South were angry that they had lost the right to enslave people and continued to treat black people poorly. Right.

[00:25:15] The other thing that I love to do. We have a jump in the think tank, and this is where I really get kids to do some critical thinking. Right. So for chapter one, the jump in the think tank question is, how would you feel if you had to stop being friends with someone because of their skin color? Right.

[00:25:32] And so this is a way to like use literature to start, and to have those, what we’re calling now, courageous conversations. Right. And lastly, when teaching history, because I am a historian at heart, so important to give historical timelines for children. Right.

[00:25:50] And so, I hope you all enjoy that. I wish we had much more time, but I want to make sure that we can get to your questions and also some really other exciting parts of today’s presentation. And so thank you so much for joining me. I’m gonna hop in the chat room and see if I see anything while the presentation continues.

[00:26:10] Megan: Yeah!

[00:26:10] Christine: So thank you so much.

[00:26:12] Megan: Christine. We actually had some questions coming in for you.

[00:26:15] Christine: Okay.

[00:26:16] Megan: Continue to fill them in and real quick before I ask Christine some of the questions that have been coming in, please do follow her on Instagram. She also has an amazing website. Her Instagram handle is Afrominimalists. And she provides a lot of amazing material, more of her work.

[00:26:33] And the book that she just read is actually going to be available to everyone on June 30th. And if you’re logging in today, we’re going to also be sending you some information about getting it as a digital resource, as well as if you want to buy it for your classroom, for your family.

[00:26:50] Ways that you can engage with it because I think you did mention just some of the awesome resources it has inside. And thank you for showing that on the screen. And if you didn’t, we will again be sending out more information about how you can connect with that book as well as her other series, which is phenomenal.

[00:27:05] [laughs]

[00:27:06] Christine: Yeah. Thank you. I just want to share this also really quickly. There’s a glossary at the end of this book, and there are many books in this series, by the way. So many historical leaders.

[00:27:16] You’ll be able to have similar type books for them, but yeah, making sure that there is a glossary. And then also, the last thing I did was, kids have a challenge, right? And so they have some Q and A to answer. And this is just always to get that, ways to get them to think critically and to have conversations.

[00:27:37] And I think, you know, parents and educators, as they’re moving through books like this and other texts they see, you see, you can identify moments where you’re like, this is a wonderful way for me to like jump in here. And that is, you know, one of the power, when I talk about like storytelling being used as a tool for social change. That is what I talk about because there’s a power of stories that we can, that we can use there.

[00:28:02] So. All right. Questions. Here we go.

[00:28:05] Megan: Wow. Yes, we have a lot coming in. One of the ones that came in first and I think is really relevant and they would love to hear your thoughts in particular on it. Y

[00:28:17] Christine: Okay.

[00:28:17] Megan: You know, these are some great frameworks that you just shared, but the guests said, I often struggle with frequency of these conversations.

[00:28:26] Wondering, like whether I’m having too much or not enough. So kind of like how frequent should these conversations be happening? And I think I got in, I think even in this moment how we have them now, but also how maybe we continue to have them? Even if they’re not on like the front page of every newspaper and website.

[00:28:46] Christine: Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s a really good question. And you know, it goes back to, I always tell people like the idea is to normalize this. The idea isn’t to like every time there’s an incident that something happens. Oh, now it’s time for us to have these conversations about race because something just happened. Right.

[00:29:02] Like it should just be a normal part of your conversation. If you feel like you’re talking about it too much, because as adults, obviously we were like hypersensitive right now. Right. I think, you know, you can wait for your children to come to you and ask questions.

[00:29:17] You can say, Oh, did you hear about X, Y, and Z? Right? And then be like, yeah, I heard about it. And man, that’s really sad. I hope things change. Right. Like you have to like be tuned in and be ready to have these conversations and they shouldn’t be so forceful. Right. They should be natural and organic conversations that you’re able to have with your children over time and build upon and expand upon.

[00:29:42] So, yeah, I definitely caution like, we’re not, you know, we’re not going to have this conversation at two o’clock every day until racism is eradicated, right? Like, you know, you still want to, just get children to understand. Like, this is a, cause this is a lifelong journey, right. Like this is work that they are going to be doing for the rest of their life.

[00:30:02] And so you just want to normalize this idea that, you know, we don’t tolerate injustice and we do what we can to eradicate it. So I hope that’s helpful.

[00:30:14] Megan: Yeah. I, I even think that that’s important for adults to note too. whereas not just talking with your kids about it and how often to, to think about it and talk about it. I think for us it’s, yeah, it’s going to be continuous. This isn’t a one week, two week conversation. It is daily in whatever ways it can be, throughout all ways.

[00:30:36] Christine: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there will be times, yeah. There will be times where obviously when something, you know, an incident, you know, like the George Floyd incident happens, these conversations are going to be more frequent because there are, you know, there are protests happening. There are things happening, they want questions answered. Right.

[00:30:53] And so yes in those moments engage, teach, have those courageous conversations. But when these moments pass, you know, it should still be a part of your normal, everyday conversation or a reflection. Like, I feel like one of the best things that you can do is live it rather than speak it. Right. And so you, you should be showing this, constantly in your lives and in the lives of your children.

[00:31:20] Megan: Yeah. Well actually Seth mentioned that modeling piece a lot last week. That’s reiterated as well.

[00:31:26] We did get another question coming in. So I’ve heard I’ve had a hard time getting some parents engaged enough. Even placing enough value on this issue to realize that they need to address this with their children. How do you start start a conversation to show that this affects us all?

[00:31:47] Christine: Yeah, that’s really tough. And I really, you know, my heart goes out to school leaders.

[00:31:52] I’ve you know, gone to schools that are designated as no place for hate schools that were like doing this workshop. All the kids have signed the pledges. Right. And then, you know, I’ll have the principal come tell me, she’ll say like, you know, there were about 10 children who aren’t here today. Their parents just don’t, they’re uncomfortable with them being a part of this conversation. Right.

[00:32:13] And we’d be talking about bullying. Like we wouldn’t even be, I wouldn’t even be going super deep into, [laughs] you know what I mean? Like systemic racism. Right. And, yeah. You know, I feel like it’s up to community leaders and educators to make it known that like, this is what is important in our school space. Right. And like, this is what we condon. And this is what we don’t condone.

[00:32:38] I mean, I feel like if you can have, you know, town halls, although now with coronavirus or whatever, but maybe you can do something virtually. You know, having these conversations and normalizing it as a part of your school, culture is important.

[00:32:53]You know, unfortunately, and I say this all the time, even on like on social media, right. I’ll have people that I’ll, you know, pull something historical or factual and they like try and challenge it in my comments and I’ll just be like delete right. Or I get like a very short response, right? The idea that you can change someone’s mind, in a comment or by like constantly, constantly drilling it into them.

[00:33:18] If you have parents who are combative in that way, again, I like that word modeling. Now I know the, the psychology word to use there. You know, again, your classroom, your school environment should model, what you’re teaching, right. It just, it doesn’t always have to be this conversation. I do believe modeling is so much more powerful sometimes.

[00:33:41] So yeah, I mean, but my heart does go out to school leaders because I’ve heard it so many times. And it’s just heartbreaking when they’re trying to change the culture of a school and have these conversations, and you still have a handful of parents that are resistant, right.

[00:33:58] But focus on those families who are a hundred percent engaged and about it. And let them also, you know, be foot soldiers for your cause for your mission.

[00:34:09] And, you know, that’s really what you have to do.

[00:34:12] Megan: Well, thank you so much for being here…

[00:34:14] Christine: You’re welcome…

[00:34:15] Megan: And sharing. And yeah, I mean, one of the things you do say is storytelling is so key and as a part of social justice and we did get comments in from parents just saying, cannot wait for the release of your trailblazer book.

[00:34:28] Christine: Oh wonderful, thank you.

[00:34:29]Megan:  A wonderful educational tool and story. And so we will absolutely be sharing it out with everyone who’s on this call today.

[00:34:35] Christine: Thank you.

[00:34:37] Megan: We have a comment coming in just saying, thank you for encouraging parents to not hide from these issues. You really get a lot of ways to address them head on. And, that we just really, really appreciate the attention that you put in to historical context and the myths and facts.

[00:34:53] Christine: You are so welcome.

[00:34:55] Megan: We are excited to provide more of those resources for everyone here today. And thanks for joining in.

[00:35:04] Christine: Yes, thank you.

[00:35:05] Megan: And obviously you’ll still be on.

[00:35:06] Christine: Yes. Yes. I just want, lastly, I’ll just tell folks who are on the call. Even though the book comes out June 30th, I have reached out to the publisher to see if I can get the ebook released early and give folks access to that. And so we’re hoping to have that done in the next week or so. And so I will send that link to Megan and you all will be able to access the ebook for free, so you don’t have to wait for the physical copy.

[00:35:31]And yeah, so I will let you all take it away. I’m going to go on mute and again, thank you all so much for having me.

[00:35:37] Megan: Thank you. As we now continue this conversation, Dr. Seth Shaffer sent us a link. Many of you may have seen it this weekend, that CNN did a type of town hall, but for kids. So what I am going to show is a link of Elmo talking to his dad, and please feel free as you’re watching it to chat questions, thoughts about it in the box. We would love to hear about them before we jump in. And as we jump into question corner.

[00:36:21] Louie: Oh, they’re gathering together to protest.

[00:36:31] Elmo: Protest, Elmo doesn’t understand. What is a protest?

[00:36:32] Louie: Oh, a protest, is when people come together to show that they are upset and disagree about something. They want to make others aware of the problem. Through protesting people are able to share their feelings and work together to make things better.

[00:36:47] They make signs, like this. [chime]

[00:36:51] Elmo: Ohh.

[00:36:52] Louie: Yeah. I’m bringing this side to the protest at the community center later.

[00:36:57] Elmo: Wow. They look upset. Are the protesters sad?

[00:37:04] Louie: They are sad. And upset and they have every right to be Elmo. People are upset because racism is a huge problem in our country.

[00:37:15] Elmo: Racism? What’s that?

[00:37:20] Louie: Oh, racism is when people treat other people unfairly because of the way they look or the color of their skin.

[00:37:29] Elmo: The color of their skin? Elmo doesn’t, understand Daddy. Elmo has friends with different types of skin, oh and fur too. Black, red, pink, purple.

[00:37:45] Louie: Well I know Elmo but not all streets are like Sesame street. On Sesame street we all love and respect one another. Across the country people of color, especially in the black community, are being treated unfairly because of how they look. Their, their culture, race, and who they are. What we are seeing is people saying enough is enough.

[00:38:17] They want to end racism.

[00:38:21] Elmo: Elmo, Elmo wants to end racism too. Elmo wants everybody to be treated fairly. What can Elmo do Daddy? How can Elmo support his friends?

[00:38:35] Louie: Well, we can start by learning and talking about what is happening and take action. [background music from video]

[00:38:50] Megan: So that was a video, again that Dr. Seth Shaffer had prepared, so, Seth, if you have any other comments, before we move into the question corner or questions, that would be questions for the audience to answer or thoughts they want to share.

[00:39:06] Dr. Shaffer: Thank you so much, Megan. And that was meant to be kind of a way to, for, to model for you guys and for parents to maybe show that to their child.

[00:39:16]Maybe like two to seven year olds, that kind of a thing you can kind of play with it. I mean, of course it wouldn’t be mindful two year olds and screen time and stuff, but this is two and a half minutes. It’s educational, it’s stimulating for them. But this, that was meant to be shown, you know, again, as an example for parents to show to their child, and then you can ask questions.

[00:39:32] Or if your child responds, you know, with like questions themselves after watching it, you know, anything they can ask. Right. You just answer. But one question would be like, you know, how do you think Elmo was feeling when he was asking his questions? Right. For those younger children, you want to connect the feeling to the situation.

[00:39:51] How do you think that one of those protesters, or those people who were in the big crowd might’ve been feeling? For our seven year olds and even maybe elementary school, if you want to experiment and show them the Sesame street clip, they might be like mom or dad or whoever. Sesame Street, you know, but hey, you know, watch two and a half minutes and then we’ll talk.

[00:40:07]So those are just some questions that can be like, what do you think Elmo might’ve been thinking? What do you think you know, his dad Louie was thinking? What was his dad feeling? Again, these questions around thoughts and feelings. How did it make you feel when you were watching it? How did you feel when you saw those people holding up signs?

[00:40:23] So, again, all these open questions who, what, when, where, why can be good ways to kind of build off that video clip and again, using it as like an educational tool.

[00:40:34] Megan: Okay. And it is in our chat box as always, and will be sent out after today’s webinar. And so, as you see, Seth is here and I mentioned that the beginning of our webinar, that we also have another type child psychologist joining us from Atlanta, Dr. Kristin Carothers.

[00:40:51] And before we jumped in and the answers in the questions that are coming in. She’s going to kind of go off of what Seth was just addressing that we can talk more, and ask some probing questions around these difficult conversations that we are having.

[00:41:07] So Kristen welcome.

[00:41:08] Dr. Carothers: Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed, Christine’s presentation. And I’m so glad to be here with you all today to continue the conversation about having courageous conversations.

[00:41:21] I like that, reframe. That these are, conversations are difficult because we haven’t had them very much before. Or if we’ve had them before, we might’ve felt discomfort while having them. And so I think to be brave is a great reframe for us to have with our children and in terms of how we speak about discussions related to race.

[00:41:42]And so why is it so hard for us to discuss race, in particular in America, but it’s also, I think, a difficult topic in other settings. And it’s because racism has been experienced as a complex trauma. And a complex trauma is a traumatic stressor that happens to occur multiple times, or when you have lots of different traumas that occur for one person.

[00:42:03] And in terms of racism in America, it’s not just impacting one person. It’s impacting multiple groups of people in different ways. And when they experienced those traumas, they may feel, experience feelings of guilt or shame, anger, sadness, and they are aware of disparities. Or even if they’re not aware of disparities, they’re directly impacted by disparities in terms of access to healthcare, access to economic advantages or opportunities. Disparities in terms of poverty, and being disproportionately impacted by those things.

[00:42:36] So all of this is like a complex trauma for black people in particular right now, but also for members of other communities that are underrepresented. That’s coupled with invalidation of an experience, and invalidation of emotions by others. So people saying, Hey, get over it. It happened years ago. So a lack of empathy or, Oh, well, it didn’t happen to you. I can’t understand why you feel so badly about it. Or others avoid the topic when it comes up or there’s just a basic unwillingness to knowledge that racism occurs and it occurs disproportionately for black and brown people. Okay. That is racism. So racism makes it hard to discuss race invalidation of a negative experience, invalidation of emotions, that a group of people feels disproportionately.

[00:43:28] We can go to the next slide. So, Christine did an excellent job of breaking down specific strategies for having conversations about race that go across developmental time frames. And so I start that on this slide. It’s really important to make sure that you are having a conversation with your children or with your child that is developmentally appropriate.

[00:43:49] And what we mean by that is that the level of information you give to a 15 or 16 year old can not be the level of the information that you give to a four year old.

[00:43:58] So if you think back to Christine’s presentation, she talked about having ongoing conversations. Parents might feel the need, or might think that they need to have an in depth conversation with the younger child, because they want to get everything out and they want to make sure they present a full picture, but if you’re having multiple conversations over time, you know, that you’re giving kids bite sized pieces of information that they can handle based on their own emotional maturity.

[00:44:24] Another thing that’s really important is to give historical context. Okay. And when we talk about historical context, we want to understand that things don’t happen in isolation. So George Floyd’s murder, did not happen without context. Okay. So there’s a context of black men being more likely to be pursued by the police and to be treated harshly by the police. Okay. And that historical context has its links to slavery. So the way that her book on Martin Luther King talks about the context that informed his white friend’s parents’ decision, not to allow him to continue to play with him. That is historical context. Okay.

[00:45:03] And one of the things that I think is important for us to acknowledge as parents and as teachers and educators, or friends of children is that we may not know certain things and we may have to do our own research. So it’s really important for us to be insightful and aware about the things we know and don’t know before we have conversations.

[00:45:22] Once we know what we don’t know, it’s time to seek our information from reputable sources. Reputable sources mean we want to avoid social media for all of our historical information because we know lots of those can be opinion-based materials. So we want to look at facts, fact-based materials. So looking at like the timeline that she showed in her book.

[00:45:42] Also accessing resources that are presented in multiple formats. So instead of just using CNN or MSNBC or Fox news, the television sources, we want them to look at newspapers. We want to look at journals and books that have been written, that give us some historical context.

[00:45:58] We can go to the next level. Okay. In terms of like what we call process oriented information in psychology, there’s a way, process just describes the way in which something is done.

[00:46:11] And so when we’re having conversations, we have lots of information that we want to give, but there’s a specific way that we want to be sure to give that information. So for parents, it’s really important, and educators that you give this type of information at times when you are calm. Now it’s natural for you to have your own reaction to what’s going on and to want to convey your emotions and to be genuine with the children that you work with or your children.

[00:46:34] But one of the things that we want to do is let kids know that we can have courageous conversations while we are calm. Okay. We can grow from it. We can be stronger.

[00:46:44] The other thing to remember to do is to be patient. So we want to make sure that we’re taking our cues from a child. So we’re going to allow them some time to process the information they’re receiving and to come to us. Sometimes as parents, we may want to drill them about what they know and what they seen and how it makes them feel. Because we’re anxious about our own feelings and we’re anxious about what could happen next. So we want to make sure that we’re kind of checking those anxious emotions and we’re being patient with our children.

[00:47:11] We also want to be warm. So it’s okay for, to let your kids know that while they are with you, you’re doing everything in your power to keep them safe. And that they, it is a safe space for them to express their thoughts and their concerns. Even if those concerns aren’t ones that they share, that you’d share with them, excuse me.

[00:47:30]And then finally be understanding. So, wanting to model for kids or teach them that they’re not responsible for what happens because lots of times with younger kids, they may think that there’s something that they could have done to impact a situation and that the situation is directly related to them.

[00:47:48] And so we want to model understanding. We want to help them to express their emotions. We want to give them the language to express how they feel if they don’t in fact have that language themselves.

[00:47:59] You can go to the next one. Okay.

[00:48:01] So what are some things that you want to avoid and some things that you want to make sure that you do when you have these conversations? You want to allow children to cry, express their sadness, talk about their feelings and do so in multiple formats.

[00:48:16] For some children it may be easier to draw or to write kids who are slow to come to you to talk about an experience might feel more comfortable, kind of just jotting down some thoughts, and then having a conversation about them later. Younger children who may not have the language skills really benefit from being able to draw or being able to watch something like Elmo and his dad talk, and then to have a conversation based on that prompt.

[00:48:41] One of the things that we want to avoid are expecting kids to be brave right off the bat. Okay. So it takes time to build bravery and to build that courage. And we’ve got to really model being courageous and being brave and might be, even be that we say, you know, I was feeling really nervous about having this conversation with you because I didn’t know what my emotional reaction would be. And so I’m going to try to be brave as we have this conversation.

[00:49:07]It’s also important to make sure that we don’t force children to have conversations before they’re really ready. So kids maybe show you signs that they’re not ready. The sign, could be that they run away or that they hide or that they refuse to talk. That’s a signal that they are not ready at that, in that moment to have a conversation.

[00:49:26] Another thing is, when kids exhibit those silly behaviors. So when Christine discussed kids at a certain age, being more silly in their responses, a lot of times that silliness is because they are really uncomfortable with the topic and they don’t know how to engage in it appropriately.

[00:49:40]If you notice that, [coughs] excuse me, kids are having strong, emotional reactions. It’s okay. Different people experience and express emotions differently. And while you might be a person who doesn’t have huge emotional experience, your child may. So it’s really important to kind of be able to tolerate large emotional expression.

[00:50:01] And look for regressions in behaviors. So kids who are wetting the bed or returning to your bed. We don’t want to make them feel ashamed of that experience. It’s natural to experience some regression when we’re going through times of trauma or high levels of stress. And so we want to be really understanding of that with our kids.

[00:50:20] Next slide. Okay. So one of the things that I think, as we have conversations across groups, is to remember that people who are impacted by trauma, those who are allies of the people who’ve been impacted by trauma, want to make sure that when we have conversations we’re doing so in a way that’s empathic, that shows that we understand that while we may not understand what all the things that happen, we can share a feeling. Okay, you can understand someone’s pain. You can feel someone’s pain. We don’t want to force people to tell their stories when they’re not ready. Okay.

[00:50:56] Or probe for personal details. And this can be really hard. When we look at even having conversations with other adults, we may need some time before we’re ready to talk. And so you want to be aware that even though your purpose may be to help, it could be that the person isn’t ready to engage in a dialogue just yet about what they’ve seen or what’s happened to them.

[00:51:17] We don’t want to dismiss things by saying, Oh, it’s going to be okay. Your intention might be to help someone move forward, but it can also be invalidating to that person. And they may think that you really don’t understand how they feel. Also want to make sure that we don’t just focus on our own experiences suffering when we’re having these conversations and that we make sure that we are asking people what their experience has been like. And taking a step back to hear from others, what they’ve experienced rather than putting our own fears or concerns onto a group that possibly has been impacted and is living and reliving a traumatic experience on a daily basis just by being exposed to TV and media coverages.

[00:51:59] And the last thing is we want to make sure that we don’t make promises we can’t keep, so we want to have hope. And we want to say, you know, this is different, the movement is different right now. There are lots of people engaged in ways that they weren’t previously engaged. It doesn’t mean that things are going to change overnight, but it does show us that there is something different than this happening. And that makes us hopeful for the future.

[00:52:21] We don’t know what the future is going to be in two years or five years or 20 years, but it makes us hopeful that better things will eventually come. Okay. And I know I spoke really quickly, but I wanted to make sure that we get time to get to questions.

[00:52:38] Megan: Yes. And we actually have a lot of questions coming in and all of that information was so spectacular to share.

[00:52:44] Thank you so much.

[00:52:45] Dr. Carothers: Yes.

[00:52:46] Megan: What we are going to just tell people, we know, we’re coming to the, up to the hour mark, but we’re going to stay on longer to answer some questions that were in the chat box. And so if you do have to leave, this will be posted online and you’ll still get all the resources that are mentioned.

[00:52:59] But with Dr. Kristin, Dr. Seth, here we are gonna get into some things right now, but if you have joined us but need to go, thank you for coming. And we hope to see you next week. But yes, we have a lot of questions that have been coming in and we do want to start off a question came in last week that we kind of want to go further. And especially Kristin, with you being here, we’d love to hear your thoughts on it as well.

[00:53:24] Dr. Carothers: Ok

[00:53:24] Megan: We got a question about how you deal with the concept of hate. It’s a very large concept.

[00:53:29] Dr. Carothers: Yes

[00:53:31] Megan: And there was someone who heard a young black child ask, why do they hate me? And yeah, how can we address this? And how can we think about this with our kids and as families?

[00:53:42] Dr. Carothers: Okay. I think the question of how to address the concept of hate or a child’s question, why do they hate me? Is, it’s a really, it’s a loaded question. It’s a multi-part question. And sometimes when we’re faced with these questions and we don’t really know how to answer it, one of the things we say is tell me more.

[00:54:02] Well now I don’t have the benefit of hearing more from this child. And so I’m going to make some assumptions. I’m going to make the assumption that that child believes as a black child, they are in danger, that they are disliked simply because of the color of their skin. And that they can be hated without someone even knowing who they are.

[00:54:21] And that is the basis of hate. Hate is based in ignorance. It’s based in fear. It’s based in not knowing things and being afraid to engage. I believe that hate is a behavior that is, hateful behaviors are often taught. And they are reinforced. And typically they are taught because one group is fearful that another group will take from them. Or fearful that they will not have the same access to resources if other people are able to get those access to resources.

[00:54:51] So for this child in particular, I will say to remember, this hate has nothing to do with you. Okay. It feels very personal because your black identity is a major part of who you are, but another person’s perceptions of you based on your skin color are not about you. They are based in that person’s ignorance. They are based in that person’s fear. And you don’t have to take that on.

[00:55:16] So even if there are other people say negative things about you because of your race or your skin color. You know, some things to be true about who you are as a person, you are a person who treats other people well. You are a person who has goals, who is intelligent. Who is loving and kind who works well with others.

[00:55:37] And we try to shift kids focus from what other people say about them, to what they say and what they know about themselves. And so that’s what I think is really important to make sure that kids are exposed to material that teaches them no matter what the world says about you, you know, we need you to know who you are.

[00:55:55] And what it means to be black and America is not a deficit. Okay. Yes, we are in a period of time where we’re being unfairly targeted, and that has been the system for many years. But that is not a system that black people absorb and say, this is who we are. Okay. So we say we are strong people that come from other strong people who overcame many obstacles to get to the point where they are. Who face disparity every day, the still succeed, still live.

[00:56:24] And so that’s where we want to keep kids focused.

[00:56:28] Dr. Shaffer: Yes, Christine. I’ll just add a couple of things to that. One is [inaudible] was [inaudible] I said, Christine, I meant…

[00:56:40] Dr. Carothers: That’s okay. Kristen and Christine.

[00:56:45] Dr. Shaffer: I apologize. I misspoke.  I think it was the K sound but I apologize. Race. Oh wait, the book that was mentioned earlier, a child story about racial injustice by Dr. Marietta Collins, Dr. Marianne Celano and Dr. Anne Hazzard. I wanted to say something that, that question and you think of this, and there are a couple of excerpts that I got from it.

[00:57:04] I’m going to add a slightly different context to what could be a challenging conversation, a lot of feeling there. This has to do with cop’s racism toward black men in particular and some I’m quoting from the book here. So this is a conversation within a family, a black family father, mother, and then two sons. One is probably, I think Josh is maybe around seven. You can read this book. It sounds like it’s a really good book. And then the other slightly older brother’s Malcom. Okay. So this is more of a [inaudible]. He, the cop won’t go to jail, said father. Why not ask Josh? Cops stick up for each other, said Malcolm, his older brother.

[00:57:42] And then, and then, excuse me. And they don’t like black men. Josh was confused. Why not? Some police are black. Mom valid. So mom then validated Josh and mentioned a friend of hers who was black and an uncle of theirs who’s black were both police officers. And here’s a quote to draw this conversation, attention to. There are many cops, black and white who make good choices, but we can’t always count on them to do what’s right.

[00:58:08] I believe that the father mentioned that and in one other excerpt from that same book, so this has to do with bringing the conversation more toward hope. Once you validate your child, his feeling. So this has to do with what you can do to change or handle racial injustice by standing up. And it’s also had to do kind of with teasing, which that could be part of that too, you know. As far as the way that, that question that young black child brought up to his, some of his parents. All right.

[00:58:35]Same book, excerpt. I have power said Josh. And I’m smart. His father said you’re right. And his mother added, and you can change people’s hearts by sticking up for someone who was not treated fairly. And then Josh says like, Malcolm sticks up for me when the kids tease me about my glasses. He tells them to step off just like that his parents said.

[00:59:00] I just wanted to add those couple excerpts. And I’m sorry if I fumbled it a little bit with the reading of it. But that book and those examples, the book is great because it, it offers like a story. And so if you’re reading it as a parent, as an educator, as an adult, wanting to know how to talk with children about these very important issues. That book kind of models it and gives very specific examples.

[00:59:23] So I just wanted to add that.

[00:59:24] Dr. Carothers: Thank you for that.

[00:59:27] Megan: Yeah. And I think it actually does go into some of the questions that we’ve been receiving. A couple of them are, how do I talk to a child about white privilege? And what do these conversations look like different between white educators and people of color.

[00:59:50] Dr. Carothers: Okay, so two things, one, I see that in the webinar chat, Christine just responded in a great way about how to have conversations around white privilege. And she spoke about historical context and historical origins. And know, and basically going back and teaching kids about Bacon’s rebellion. And so that, so that’s, I think an excellent part, a place to start.

[01:00:15] But then to also talk about, and to do activities where you show children and teenagers, that they actually experience privilege that they’re not even aware of. White privilege is the ability to not even be aware that you are, when you are born, there are certain benefits that are before you’re even born. There are certain benefits that you’re afforded just based on the fact that you are white in America.

[01:00:39] So, the reason I say before you’re born is that we know that they are great health disparities for black women in terms of childbirth, regardless of socioeconomic status. So that lets us know that even if I’m a doctor, I’ve got, I’ve got a PhD. When I go into the delivery room and my colleague who has a PhD and is a white woman, my chances in terms of my own mortality, my ethnic mortality are super high and hers are not. And that’s going to be because of implicit bias. There are things that, the doctors may respond to me differently in terms of my pain and management, but for kids and breaking this down, one of the activities that we often do is the step-up step back mind.

[01:01:20] And so we’ll just talk about step up if your parents went to college. Step up if you have ever been on vacation or flown on a plane. Step up, if you, just different things that we don’t even think about that are experiences that can be automatic experiences for kids who are born white and middle class. Right.

[01:01:39] So, yes, we know that there are some, there are things that occur for all races when there’s poverty. But even the process of getting out of poverty is much different if you are white, versus if you were black. You have a faster trajectory out of poverty based on race. So having conversations about white privilege may have to have a history lesson and talk about things that we don’t take for granted.

[01:02:03] Seth what do you think?

[01:02:05] Dr. Shaffer: Yeah. And that speaks to what Christine said earlier, and then you reinforced Kristin about the importance of history. Right. And that these are also multiple conversations. It’s not just a, you know, one kind of, one thing, one time deal or whatever. So if you’re having these conversations with your child through different mediums, whether it’s like words, it’s drawing, it’s play, et cetera.

[01:02:24] It’s going to be happening hopefully over a span of time. So that when concepts are this, you know, this true concept of white privilege happens. Then it can be more contextual for your child because you’ve been having ongoing conversation. But then keeping in mind, how to translate certain terms into age appropriate language.

[01:02:43] And one way to do that with a younger child would be this idea of white, this truth of white privilege, to translate it into an example that maybe your child can relate to. Remember that time when this happened. Remember that time when that happened, or this happened to this person that we know, et cetera.

[01:02:57]So that would be the other thing that I would add. And just one, one quick thing I wanted to build off of this. This idea of history that, my friend Alfar, texted me recently. I feel like I really want to read it. So this was, this was, it’s a little out of context, but this is a text she wrote, educate everyone, let them know about our history, black history, and how it did not start with slavery.

[01:03:19] We have a really rich history that started long before most European empires. Tell them how colonialism ripped Africa apart and continues to this day. Make them understand that even though they didn’t start the problem per se, they are beneficiaries of it. And that white privilege is real and not just a buzzword right now.

[01:03:39] And most important stop calling the police on us for just being. It’s not. Okay. So I want to just to mention that quote from Alfar, it kind of fits into this.

[01:03:50] Megan: Yeah. Thank you all so much.

[01:03:51] Yeah. I mean, there are a ton more questions that have been coming in and what we’re going to do is we are going to try and answer as many of them in an upcoming newsletter. And also gets them in future question corners.

[01:04:03] But as Kristin, Seth and Christine all mentioned like, this is just this, like, it’s not, you know, we’ve already started amazing. But I’ll have courageous conversations today, tonight. If you’re comfortable with it, you’re already been expressing so many things in the chat box to us right now. And this is ongoing and there are so many amazing resources out there.

[01:04:24] And even today, you know, hopefully the tools that we’ve provided that Christine and Kristin have talked about, that Seth has mentioned are ways that you can even drive conversation, not just with your children, but with your peers. And this isn’t, you know, this is, this is an always thing. But we do appreciate Seth for you always being here and Kristin, we hope to see you again at some point. Because that was just some phenomenal information that we can go forward in discussion around this. Especially during this time. And thanks…

[01:04:57] Dr. Carothers: Thank you for having me.

[01:04:58] Megan: Yeah. Everyone else in the comments too. Everyone has just been saying, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:05:04] And we’ll try and even provide you other opportunities to engage with us. But we really appreciate everyone joining us today for continuing the conversation.

[01:05:15] So just some further logistics of resources that we’ve been sharing around COVID. Because health is still a very important thing to be thinking about during this time.

[01:05:28] And even Kristin mentioned that that’s a place that as we look into the future and ways to be addressing racism, there is so much of it in our healthcare industry. And so look at these resources. But also learn more about that history.

[01:05:43] And you can connect with us and sign up for our newsletter, where we will be answering some of the questions that came in today, as well as joining us next Family Room for Play is Powerful with Pure Play Every Day.

[01:05:56] And following them June 25th, we are going to be Healing through Art, with ArtReach from DC. We look forward to seeing you at 3:00 PM Eastern, 2:00 PM Central next week.

[01:06:07] And again, thank you for coming and fill out our survey. Keep sending in questions. This has been amazing. Thank you to all our guests and participants. Continue those courageous conversations. Have a good one.

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